Episode 06 - What We Talk About When We Talk About Politics

Jeff and Darron discuss how difficult it is to discuss politics and political issues, particularly with our friends and loved ones who might have views different than our own. Jeff relays a story of a recent conversation among friends gone awry, and they consider the role that emotions, identity, and cognitive biases play in our political conversations. Lastly they consider some ways in which we might have more productive conversations that help build understanding and hopefully don’t harm our relationships. This conversation was recorded a few days before the 2020 presidential election.

Notes:

• 5:01 - See “What Happens to Your Body During the Fight or Flight Response?”

• 5:53 - See “This is why you get worked up about politics, according to science” (CNN, 2017)

• 7:35 - Emotional Hijacking

• 7:58 - Difficult Conversations by by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen

• 10:03 - Confirmation bias

• 10:44 - Motivated reasoning

• 11:04 - “According to Peter Ditto, a psychology professor and researcher who studies motivated reasoning and what he refers to as “hot cognition” - the interface between passion and reason,“People think that they think like scientists, But really they think like lawyers. Scientists don't care what the answer is: they look at the data and draw a conclusion, Lawyers know the conclusion they want to reach, then they harness a bunch of facts to support that conclusion.” And this is how we construct our political facts, whether we realize we’re doing it or not.” - For more on this, confirmation bias, motivated reasoning, and other cognitive biases see “When It Comes to Politics You’re Not As Rational As You Think” (University of California News, 2016) and “Cognitive Biases Cheat Sheet” from writer Buster Benson, author of Why Are We Yelling? The Art of Productive Disagreement

• 12:02 - Loss aversion

• 12:54 - See effects of stress on memory and  “Your Brain on Stress Fails to Learn Properly” (Psychology Today, 2018)

• 13:46 - Illusion of validity 

• 14:42 - See “This Article Won’t Change Your Mind” (The Atlantic, 2019) or “Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds” (James Clear)

• 15:25 - See “Why Won’t They Listen?” (New York Times, 2012) and Jonathan Haidt interview with Tamler Sommers 

• 17:12 - See A Theory of Justice (John Rawls) and the “Original Position” (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

• 17:49 - See “The Psychology Behind Why Politics Can Get So Heated — and How to Show Up Differently” (Healthline)

• 18:29 - “Due to this overlapping of identities, political identity is now sometimes referred to as a mega identity. According to political psychologist and author Liliana Mason, people have a huge number of different group identities, any of which might seem the most salient at any given time. In general, the identity at the top of your mind at any given moment most likely will be the identity facing the most pressing threat. But over the past few decades, the parties have become increasingly aligned with other social identities including race, religion, and rural or urban location. And when these links start connecting our parties and other parts of our social identities, then all of this gets drawn into that one particular political competition. once these mega-identities get formed, we start to think of out-group partisans as quite different from us — not just in terms of their political views, but also racially, religiously, and with any number of overlapping categories. We feel ever more socially distant from these out-group members, which makes it easier to dehumanize them, to think about them with less generosity.” - See “As the Rhetoric Escalates: Talking with Liliana Mason” an interview with Lilliana Mason, political psychologist and author of Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity

• 22:40 - The exact lyric is “Scotty liked all of the books that I recommended even if he didn't I wouldn't be offended........” in the song “Tire Swing” by Kimya Dawson, which appears on the Juno movie soundtrack 

• 20:54 - Social Identity Theory

• 23:03 - See “Nirvana Vs. Pearl Jam” (Noisecreep, 2013) 

• 23:52 - “For people who pay attention to such things, New Haven is widely regarded as a pizza mecca, and is home to a few locations, most notably Pepe’s and Sally’s, that frequently appear on best pizza lists. Locals not only identify as being defenders of New Haven pizza, or more appropriately “apizza,” against other cities such as New York and Chicago, but also within New Haven everyone has a particular place that they argue is the best. For what it’s worth, and although I’ve certainly softened in my stance, I still happen to be a Pepe’s partisan, and won’t really argue unless you try to tell me that Modern is better.” For more on the New Haven pizza scene see Frank Pepe’s Pizzeria Napoletana, and “The Definitive Guide to New Haven Pizza” (Eater, 2014)

• 25:08 - See Negative Partisanship, “Negative Partisanship Explains Everything” (Politico, 2017), “How Hatred Came to Dominate American Politics” (FiveThirtyEight, 2020), and “The rise of negative partisanship and the nationalization of U.S. elections in the 21st century” (Electoral Studies, 2016)

• 27:35 - “Smells Like Teen Spirit” (YouTube video) by Nirvana

• 28:55 - See Dehumanization, “What Is Dehumanization Anyway?” (Psychology Today, 2018), “The 5 Steps of Dehumanization” (Psychology Today, 2018) and “Dehumanizing Always Starts With Language” (Brene Brown, 2018)

• 30:33 - Tribalism

• 30:48 - See “The Age of “Mega-Identity” Politics” (The Ezra Klein Show) - an interview with Lilliana Mason, political psychologist and author of Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity

• 30:52 - Minimal Group Paradigm 

• 30:57 - See “Robbers Cave Experiment” (Simply Psychology) and “Revisiting Robbers Cave: The easy spontaneity of intergroup conflict” (Scientific American, 2012)

• 35:02 - See “How Filter Bubbles Distort Reality: Everything You Need to Know” (Farnam Street Blog, 2017)

• 40:55 - “I’m trying to make a nuanced point here about how we conduct our group politics versus how we discuss politics with people in our lives - and it is not to say that people in a democracy bear no responsibility for the actions of elected leaders. Nor is it to excuse hateful, derogatory, or dehumanizing rhetoric. As it is famously stated in the Declaration of Independence, “...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,” politics and elections absolutely do have consequences, and plans, policies, and legislation implemented or not implemented do have impacts in the world, as do the words and ideas expressed by elected leaders. That being said, people’s identities are complex, and their perception of the world and how they see things in any given situation equally so, and I do not believe there is a 1:1 correlation between individuals and the governance of a particular politician or party. If we disagree then it is our job to continually do the work, as hard as it is, to understand multiple perspectives, even if they seem inimical to our own, and we must never forget our shared humanity. As the philosopher John Stuart Mill said “He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.”

• 43:08 - “Six of One - Obamacare vs. The Affordable Care Act” (2013  video clip from Jimmy Kimmel Live)

• 44:00 - See “Party Over Policy: The Dominating Impact of Group Influence on Political Beliefs” by Jeffrey Cohen (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2003)

• 49:06 - The Beatles vs. The Stones (Ultimate Classic Rock)

• 51:48 - “Don’t put too many onions in the sauce” (video clip from Goodfellas)

• 54:52 - See “Masks Work. Really. We’ll Show You How.” (New York Times, 2020)

• 55:52 - See “Teresa Bejan on Free Speech, Civility, and Toleration” (Episode 116 of the Mindscape Podcast) - an interview with Teresa Bejan, political scientist and author of Mere Civility: Disagreement and the Limits of Toleration 

• 56:45 - See “Managing Conversations When You Disagree Politically” (American Psychological Association)

Jeff and Darron discuss how difficult it is to discuss politics and political issues, particularly with our friends and loved ones who might have views different than our own. Jeff relays a story of a recent conversation among friends gone awry, and they consider the role that emotions, identity, and cognitive biases play in our political conversations.